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After Ganados del Valle:
An Interview with Antonio Manzanare

Everyone loves a good story, but only a handful can really tell them. For individuals who are well-acquainted with Antonio Manzanares, they know he loves to tell stories...and I, for one, love listening to them. Antonio was a co-founder of Ganados del Valle, and is now the co-owner and operator (with his wife Molly) of Shepherd's Lamb, a family-owned business. His new business is geared toward stimulating and maintaining economic growth in northern New Mexico, a feat not so easily achieved. His work is of considerable value and worth, as he has become a positive model for others. The following interview with Antonio is a direct translation. His voice and story assist in providing an understanding of the struggles he faces as a certified-organic farmer who is paving the way for others. It is my hope that by providing a piece true to his words, it will assist the reader and lend insight not only to his thoughts, but to his unique style or rhythm of speech - all a part of who Antonio is...a story teller.

I: Interviewer, Frances Ortega

I: So tell me about Shepherd's Lamb?

Antonio: Shepherd's Lamb started with Pastores Lamb, a part of Ganados del Valle. Since Tierra Wools was successful in helping that part of it survive. You see now, really, wool provides maybe 10 percent. Once upon a time it was 25 percent. But it has really dropped because wool prices have not kept up with inflation and everything else over the years. As a matter a fact, I would venture to say that the price of wool for this year on the normal commercial market was so bad, that I would say that my grandfather received more for his wool 75 years ago than what we received, in terms of real dollars. Or unreal dollars, because wool was only about 20 cents. We get probably 28 cents a pound. That doesn't even pay for shearing.

But through Tierra Wools, the use of Churro sheep and other wools, the coarser wools in that sense, on the commercial market would pay 5 cents. But Tierra Wools would pay us a little more than 5 cents. Nobody wanted that wool. Nobody can pay the producers to make it worth their while. Of course, Tierra Wools has their own problems in staying alive, so that has to be balanced out. They can only buy so much, so that impacts us.

To get back, we felt we had done something good with the wool, but that is only a small portion of income that comes from sheep. The majority comes from the land. And so that is how we started working with Pastores Lamb. We realized that with the wool alone, that is not enough to help the small flocks and the farmers survive. We needed to figure out how to deal with the meat. So that is how we started Pastores Lamb, and to intervene that way. I started advertising straight to the consumer type: "Farm to Freezer" deal. But then at the time, Ganados was very active, and we had too many things going on. We must have had five major projects: Tierra Wools, Pastores Store, Pastores Lamb, Pastores Wool Washing, started Otra Vuelta a recycling program. Have you been?

I: yeah uh huh, I bought a mat from there.

Antonio: Okay there was a guard dog project, educational programs, a scholarship fund.

I: Sounds like a lot of programs.

Antonio: A lot of programs. I mean, intense fund raising happening at the same time...

So that is how Pastores got started. We were having an accounting workshop because, you know, the internal accounting. And we would bring in people and have workshops, and there was this lady - we were talking over lunch - Ann McCafry, she said, "Why don't you guys take your meat to the Farmer's Market?" We just kind of laughed and we thought, "Farmer's Market, that's a veggie type deal," and she said, "No, you ought to try it." So we did, as a lark. We stored some lambs and went to the Santa Fe Farmer's Market, it was smaller at the time - it wasn't at Sanbusco - and lo and behold, we sold out by 9 in the morning.

What we had taken, we got a little charged up about it, 'cause we went in with a lot of trepidation about it. We thought we were going to get attacked here, 'cause we thought, "Meat, we're selling meat at the Farmer's Market." We had a perception of a Farmer's Market being strictly vegetables and that kind of stuff.

We got kind of charged up about it, even though we did not have that confidence in our product. We didn't know. We were marketing our own lambs and stuff. We went to the Market, we weren't selling that many (on a larger scale). We really didn't know what kind of product we had.

I: What year was this?

Antonio: It was when Pat Quintana worked there (Pastores Lamb). Yeah, the early '90s. Pat was there in 1989, it was around 1990 and 1991. We went along, got some customers, and we were marketing a small percentage of our lambs in the Farmer's Markets and direct sales. Then we hired somebody else to work on Pastores Lamb. We didn't have time ourselves and he (Elipio McCure) developed it to some degree, and he was getting a certain percentage. But then between 1993 and 1996, Tierra Wools and Ganados split. There were power struggles.

So I left the organization. I was not in a power position. I have always been a reluctant leader. So we partnered up with a cooperative in Colorado. It was part of the Rocky Mountain Farmer's Union Organization in the San Luis Valley to help small farmers and Ranchers. Our marketing person, Elipio, went to work with them because it was going to be a kosher deal. There was some work done, but nothing in the west. But it grew too fast too quick and it went under, basically it went under. So Pastores Lamb fell by the way side and nobody was doing much about it. So I asked to rent the name - the name I had coined myself - and some of the equipment, and thought, "I can do this on my own - we can do this on our own."

Just to keep a customer base, the first season I did it under Ganados. The next year we decided to do it ourselves. At the time I was sort of on the outs with the organization (Ganados). The Executive Director at the time didn't want to let me rent the name or equipment. So I struck out on my own. That is what we did, we struck out on our own. Although I wanted the name Pastores, it doesn't matter, it's the same thing in English. So we started our own meat, plus some of the other producers. People were dropping out of the sheep business. Business was going down, down. There wasn't any people left. We went on our own. Our little business has grown. That is how we started, by going to the Farmer's Markets. We skipped a year and that hurt us. It was a drought year and our lambs were really small and we couldn't do it. It really hurt us. But that is how we ended up doing our own. It has grown so we don't sell lambs commercially like we used to.

All the time we were doing this, we had always figured we were organic. That was the time the word organic was being used and people would say, "Is this organic?" And we'd say yeah, not knowing we had to meet these standards. But we kept looking into it, and finally somebody pointed out, "Are you certified organic?" and we said, "No, we are not." They said you can't the use the name organic if you are not certified by the state. So we looked into it and found out what they (standards) were, and were discouraged to find out that in order to be organic, you have to be all the way from the ground on up. If there is any place in there that you are not organic, then you are not certified. At the time, there was not an organic-certified slaughter facility in the state.

I: So they are talking about from the feed too?

Antonio: Yeah all the way from before they are born. The third trimester. Basically you have to keep your ewes running too. It's almost year round anyway. So we looked into being certified. We could grow them organically, but if you can't process them, then you lose your status. We convinced our processor (Donald Martinez, Zemitran) to certify and he did. He struggles with that.

I: Where do you process?

Antonio: We process in El Rito. After he got his certification then we knew we could stay on. We were the first flock to be certified for the state of New Mexico, and maybe of these western states. California may have certification before us, but I know Colorado doesn't have certification, and Texas doesn't, and I don't know about Arizona. Of our surrounding states we are probably the first. There only two (certified flocks) - we convinced one of our other producers here in New Mexico. Last year we wondered if we had enough. We needed more lambs, and we are really concerned about food safety. We have learned a lot since we became certified organic, in the area of food safety and what we are eating and what people are eating.

So that's what we are concentrating on a lot now, Molly and I. It is a full time deal and the family too. Yeah the kids, everybody, todos participan (everybody participates). You know, fortunately they are the age that they can help.

I: What are their ages?

Antonio: 18, 17, 15 , and 13 years old. So that's is the short of how we ended up with Shepherd's Lamb and the organic part of it. We've learned a lot. You see, then we became a part of a Co-op. Then we joined the New Mexico Livestock Organic Cooperative. We are caught (in the middle), because sometimes it may not be worth taking our product somewhere that doesn't sell our product well - in a capitalist point of view.

I: That is tough, because then there has to be a real push for customers to purchase New Mexico products. Buy New Mexico products.

Antonio: We are in a bind in that area. Of course the WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) program is great.

I: Yeah, which is at the Santa Fe Farmer's Market.

Antonio: But they have that here too.

I: In the South Valley?

Antonio: Los Ranchos Market has it. It's all over the state now. You can't use it for meat, but that doesn't matter as far as eating healthier greens.

I: And able to buy it.

Antonio: Right, and able to buy it. It's been a great program. It doesn't really work for us because they can't really buy meat. But as far I'm concerned it doesn't matter, because it's about them not about us. We eat pretty well. We are on a farm, we go to Farmer's Markets, we purchase from vendors, we have our own meat. We are very lucky. We could grow our own if we had the time. Molly used to have a little garden that she used to sell produce. No tenemos tiempo ( We don't have time.) We barely have time, no tenemos tiempo para hacer lo que tenemos ahora (We don't have time to do what we have at the moment). Although we think about all the time.

So that is how we got Shepherd's Lamb. So we still struggle. There are all kinds of obstacles all the time.

I: What do you have planned for the future?

Antonio: Pues (Well), you know our biggest problem with Shepherd's Lamb is that there is only one processor. Where basically, if something happened to him, we'd be in a real tiff. So we feel what we need to have our own processing facility. So we won't have to depend on others. If, for some reason or another the state finds something and shuts him down, or he loses his organic certification. When you are dependent on just one institution or one place to keep you going, that's like when you are building a house, and the foundation can come out from under you. There are more facilities than him, there is one in Farmington. So we would like to have our own little small, not necessarily slaughter, and have our own small processing facility. To have more control of our product and to possibly to work with other organic producers. There is money out there, grants to do things.

Somos lo de dos (We are but two), and it takes all our time to do our farm, our sheep, the marketing. We do quality control of processing, and we do labeling. So we have to be there when part of it is done. Then we get on the road to all these Farmer's Markets. We do deliver, we have small accounts but, yeah, operating out of a couple of freezers. We did go out on a limb and borrow money to buy a truck and refrigerated unit. So we peddle our wares to the consumers at the Farmer's Market. That is really the way to get the word out. There are little places that will really work with you. You see, stores are not stupid. They can see that we are organic, and they see that people are starting to ask for it.

What is going to happen now are the new federal standards for organics. What I am afraid is, it is going to allow the big companies an "in." General Mills is already doing it. They are buying our little organic companies. You are going to get General Mills, Purina, what are all the big, Beatrice Foods, and in the cattle and our industry you are going to get Tyson, Conagra, and you are gonna get IBP, all the big ones.

You see, now they are going to have an organic "in." The federal standards are coming out now and they (the big companies) can produce it cheaper than we can. So eventually it's just going be...that is, the capitalist system, that is the way it is supposed to work. A lot of small businesses are afraid of new federal regs. Now a federal regulatory agency that regulates organic, as opposed to our locals, you know the state. Now that we are going to have a big one. The first person that dies of mad cow disease is going to start a revolution in the meat industry in this country. Our consumers are smart. I know that companies are working on this. General Mills is working on this. Eventually the big companies will eat us. They will bring that organic meat to market cheaper than we can grow it and drive us out of business. That is our greatest fear in the organic business.

We will have our little market share. We'll survive. But as far as us jumping out of the box and really meaning something...slim chance. Porque (because) we don't have the resources. To jump out of the box and, say, I know sheep producers in this state they would like to go this way, but they are more conservative. They are on the southern end of the state and they just won't. We went to Whole Foods to try to get in.

I: Oh really?

Antonio: Yeah. They are so busy. They have more than 160 stores now. They are the biggest natural foods chain in the nation. But it is a corporation, it's corporate.

I: Exactly

Antonio: The local guy said, "Yeah, I want you, but I got to get clearance from Austin." The guy in Austin said, "If you can't supply all of our stores, we don't really want to talk to you," because they are bringing it from New Zealand. Our opinion was that we would start small here. I hear they are going to build two here in Albuquerque. It's corporate America.

So people say, "Why don't you take your product to Whole Foods?" The customer asks for it. But they (Whole Foods) don't really care about the consumers. They make a big show about it - but in their board (Board of Directors) there and, good little answers to people's questions. I am not too crazy about those big chains. I have seen what they do to local economies. We support our local store at home.

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For more information about Shepherd's Lamb, contact Antonio or Molly at (505) 588-7792, or at Shepherd's Lamb, P.O. Box 307, Tierra Amarilla, NM 87575.